Jan Phillip Hamm:
Herman, would you like to tell me, where you went after your liberation?
Herman Snyder:
To answer your question and to be more specific, after the war in 1945, I lived in Debora, Russia. In 1946 as Polish citizen I had to turn in my Russian passport and the Russians gave me papers to go back to Poland, because I was born in Poland. When we left Russia, we went to Breslau, located in the Sudetenland. My wife, my daughter and I lived there, but in1946 after we got there, I got up one morning and read in the Polish papers: forty-two Jewish people and 182 Russian people were killed and wounded because survivors returned get their homes back. The Polish people who had been living in their homes for 5-6 years did not want to give the survivors their houses back, so the Polish people killed them. After I had read this in the papers, we left Poland. We went to Germany; to Regensburg, in the east of Germany next to Czech Republic. From the Czech Republic, we travelled to Munich. We lived three and a half years in Germany and I worked as a cabinet maker. We had our own apartment, me and my wife and my daughter. I was doing well in Germany. I tried the best I could. I spoke the language somehow and life was good for me and my family. In 1949 we left Germany we came to the United States on April 6th, 1949. I continued my work as a cabinet maker here. Then I started to learn carpenter work. I have continued that work until today. Building homes and doing all kind of work, specifically I was building homes. I built hundreds of homes in Pennsylvania. We had two more children in the United States and like I said life was good. Sixty-two years later I am still working a little bit and life continues. I am 90 years old and I am enjoying life in the US.
Jan Phillip Hamm:
What exactly were the reasons for leaving Poland? Did you have the feeling survivors like you were not welcome?
Herman Snyder:
In Poland they didn’t like the Jews and they did not like the communism.
Jan Phillip Hamm:
Why not?
Herman Snyder:
Because of many specific reasons. (The Poles did not like the Jews) Because of their religion and other things. So I moved to Germany in 1949, because of their hatred for the Jews and the Soviet Union and because of the communism. The reason I left Poland again, like I said before, was that we were not welcome there after the war. Hatred is a disease and I did not want to live in those kinds of circumstances when you know you are not wanted. And after they killed the forty-two people, as I mentioned before, in June 1946, we decided to leave Poland. I already told you the rest of the story.
Jan Phillip Hamm:
Were there a lot of prejudices towards you, do you have an example?
Herman Snyder:
Yes, they (the Poles) said that “it is a shame not all the Jews were killed. There are still Jews in Poland. “ And that is why they killed the forty-two and 182, because they were coming to take their homes; their parents homes or their own homes. So that is what happened in Poland after the war. Poland was a place where all concentration camps, most of them existed; Buchenwald, Dachau, Oswiecim. All the concentration camps gas chambers and crematoriums were in Poland; at least most of them. Like I said before, Poland was so anti-Semitic. And that is the way it was.
Jan Phillip Hamm:
And when you came to Germany, Were there no such prejudices? There was no anti-Semitism? What exactly was the difference in comparison to Poland?
Herman Snyder:
Okay, after we came to Germany, after what had happened in Poland, there was a man, wounded in Stalingrad. He was a good cabinet maker and had a shop. He lost his left eye, his left arm and his left leg in Stalingrad; so he could not work anymore. So, I met him and he got me work in the shop. He paid me well. Life for me was good. Yes, in 1946 there were still certain people in Germany who expressed their beliefs the way it used to be but not like before. Prejudices decreased, you can’t eliminate.
Jan Phillip Hamm:
You went to Germany quite recently after the World War II. Back then, did you think Germans had changed their minds or did you think they were still thinking the same way like during the nation socialism? Were the people different?
Herman Snyder:
The German people after the war were just trying to live in Germany. In thecountry they were born, they tried to forget what had happened in those days from 1933 to 1945. Not all Germans participated in the genocide. Any people I talked to after the war, did not even know what was going on, including Field Marshal Rommel. When he came from Africa and when he found out what had been going on he could not believe that such things existed in Germany. This murder against many people was not only against the Jews. Everybody was the enemy in Germany, because according to Hitler’s writing “Mein Kampf” he said that only the Germans belong to the superior race and Russians and the Slavic people belong to the subhuman race.
And so the German people were indoctrinated. They had succeeded in the beginning when they started, when they came to power. And the German people thought that Hitler was a genius. After the First World War and the Weimar Republic between 1918 and 1933 in Germany the German people had to pay money to France and to England. The situation in Germany was very bad and in addition Hindenburg was very old. Three of them: Hindenburg, Hitler and Ernst Thalmann – all three of them were running for president in Germany. Somehow Hitler was nominated. That is how it started. It lasted I guess, less than 12 years. Hitler came to power in 1933 at the end of May 8th, 1945. In 1945 the Second World War was over. The average German started a different life after Hitler.
Jan Phillip Hamm:
In which respect had they changed their mind? Do you have an example?
Herman Snyder:
I give you an example. I give you a specific example, Phillip.
Mrs. Goebbels who was the wife of Goebbels, Minister of Information and Propaganda, wrote something in her memories. She poisoned her six children. She had a son, seventeen years old from a previous marriage and she was telling her son: “My son, I am thirty-nine years old. If I can’t live the way it was in Germany under Hitler I don’t want to live.” She committed suicide. So here is a family with six children, who are all dead in April, 1945. What I am referring to is that many, many Germans lived well under Hitler and they still wanted to continue and they believed what Hitler was doing for the German people – “Deutschland über alles” – “Lebensruhm “ and so forth. And there were many people like Mrs. Goebbels. It is probably true that they changed their dispositions or their outlook in the future for a different way of life. Many of them did, but in Germany during 1933-45 there were many Germans who gave their lives to get rid of Hitler. For example, on August 1944 in the bunker where they tried to assassinate Hitler; everybody was killed except for Hitler. General Stauffenberg who was responsible, had already formed a new government in Berlin, but Hitler survived and they paid the ultimate price for orchestrating the plot. This is what I read. This is what I remember, but I don’t know, it is hard to understand people’s mind. Why they did certain things? Indoctrination sometimes can be negative to all of us because many people let themselves be indoctrinated by others for many specific reasons. That is the way it was.
Jan Phillip Hamm:
Did you feel like home in Germany? Could you refer yourself to Germany as your home?
Herman Snyder:
I give you an example. Because I was working in that shop as a cabinet maker which I mentioned to you before, we lived in a home with two families; one German family and me and my wife and daughter. They had children the same age like my daughter. I was doing well in Germany after the war. So I bought some chicken and my wife cooked the chicken. So when I came home from work and the wife of the other family was taking the chicken out of the soup from the pan. And I said: „Warum machen sie das?“ She said „You Jews come back again to Germany. Wir haben nichts und die Juden haben wieder alles.“ And I said “put the chicken back into the soup!” Her husband was in England, a German general taken by the English. That is what happened to answer your question. That is only one example.
Jan Phillip Hamm:
Why did you leave Germany and go to the United States? What were the reasons?
Herman Snyder:
The reason we left in April 6th, 1949: I was left alone My father, mother, sister and brother were shot in June 2nd,1942. 1858 Jews were shot in one ditch and I had some family here. I had two uncles and two aunts. My mother had been in the United States and came here at the end of the 19th century. My mother went back in 1940 to see her parents again. She was the youngest. When the First World War started and she was still in Europe, she couldn’t come back. She stayed there and that is why she got married and I was born.
I came to America because I had family here. I did not want to live alone. So I lived with the brothers of my mother and her sisters.
Jan Phillip Hamm:
So you lived with them; for how many years?
Herman Snyder:
I didn’t live with them for too long. I stayed with them for perhaps six or nine months and I was already working as a cabinet maker.
Jan Phillip Hamm:
Was it difficult going to America? Did you need a visa or something like that?
Herman Snyder:
Now, to be most specific, for three years I was sending letters to my family in the United States and I didn’t get any answers. I exactly remembered their address, but what did I forget? “PA”for Pennsylvania. That is why I haven’t gotten any answers for three years. One lawyer from New York came and he spoke Yiddish and I told him the story of what was happening to me. I already had a passport in order to go to Israel in 1948 and then he took all the information. He went back to New York and started finding out where my family lived to my pleasant surprise. And right away they sent me letters, money and other things. Less than two months they looked for me, they found me – my name was Snyder back then – they had three visas from the United States for me, my wife and my daughter and so I came to the United States.
Jan Phillip Hamm:
Since then you have lived here?
Herman Snyder:
Since then I have lived here for the last sixty-two years and I always did well here in the United States. I started with 75 cents an hour, then a dollar an hour and then I couldn’t live doing the cabinet work. That is why I learned to be a carpenter and I continued till today as a carpenter. I built homes, did remodelling and so forth. Again, America was good to me.
Jan Phillip Hamm:
Did America become your home? Do you feel like home by now?
Herman Snyder:
When you have lived in a country for sixty-two years and you begin to “learn” the country you live in, specifically the language and the history. Now, when I was in Poland, in Germany and in other places, discrimination against Jews was noticeable throughout the centuries. When I came here, sometimes when I worked with the carpenters I heard them things saying – not to my liking – about the Jews, but it was very seldom. I don’t want to get too deep into it why discrimination and hatred exist, but as long as we are humans there will always be discrimination against each other, because many people benefit from it.
Jan Phillip Hamm:
What was important to you? What were important factors for feeling at home?
Herman Snyder:
Because I built my life when I came in April 6th, 1949, and I knew this is going to become my home. There was no other place to go except for Israel. And I finally integrated myself.
Jan Phillip Hamm:
Was family very important to you in order to integrate yourself into the society?
Herman Snyder:
That was not only that important. It became my home. There came millions and millions of Jewish people and others to the United States for the last 400 years. The United States was good to me, because I had a good trade. I have never been lazy. I loved my work and I have three children who are all educated in medicine. All of them received the best education. My daughter was born in Russia. She learned, she works, she got married and all of them are living their life. I am still living my life at the age of past 90 and I enjoy life very much in the United States.
Jan Phillip Ham:
So family was very important. Which important role does language play when it comes to integration? How important is language?
Herman Snyder:
When you integrate yourself into a new country communication and language are very important. You cannot survive without speaking the language spoken in the country you go to. And after a year and a half, because I had to, I worked with carpenters who all spoke English. How could I have communicated with them? They helped me and I went to a high school. After five years of being here I received the citizen papers in1955. I think I could communicate. I think I could speak English; not like an American, but we understood each other.
Jan Phillip Hamm:
What else is important to integrate yourself? I mean, besides family and language, which other factors are important?
Herman Snyder:
Family is important.
Jan Phillip Hamm:
What else is important?
Herman Snyder:
Work is important and trying to understand others.
Jan Phillip Hamm:
How do you do that? How do you try to understand others?
Herman Snyder:
By living with them and learning their behaviour and how they live, because we are all different. We are all indoctrinated differently. In the countries I lived, wherever it was, we had to try to get along with everybody. It helps all of us to understand others and learn from them. In this way we are better people.
Jan Phillip Hamm:
Would you agree with the following statement: if you are not willing to integrate yourself you are not able to integrate yourself?
Herman Snyder:
It should not be a problem to integrate yourself in a country you came to by choice in order to stay for the rest of your life. There are certain laws in a country which you have to obey the best you can. You have to work and you have family. You just have to try the best you can.
Jan Phillip Hamm:
Was it difficult for you to get used to all the different habits both in Germany and in the USA?
Herman Snyder:
They are two different countries. They are not the same, but like I said before it is so easy to indoctrinate others – religiously, politically and economically. And people believe, they want to believe, they want to be good citizens and sometimes they let themselves believe in something that they did not understand. Maybe it can be negative to themselves and to the country, but at times when you come to another country you try to integrate and to do the best you can and work and hope for the best.
Jan Phillip Hamm:
What do you think about integration in America? Do you think it is difficult for people to integrate themselves into the American society?
Herman Snyder:
Many people before or after the war for the last two hundred or three hundred years, even after 1776, from Europe, from any other countries, many, many people immigrated to the United States. They worked in coal mines, they worked in steel mines, they worked in the farms and they were trying to improve materially in order to live the so called better life in America, because there is no alternative.
Jan Phillip Hamm:
Do you think America is a country which is open to foreigners?
Herman Snyder:
It was and it still is, not as much, but it still is.
Jan Phillip Hamm:
What about the Hispanic people who are trying to come to America facing enormous problems?
Herman Snyder:
Because of the conditions in Mexico.
Jan Phillip Hamm:
Do you think America should let them in by opening the borders?
Herman Snyder:
The conditions in Mexico are not good and people are trying to run away from Mexico to the United States. They come here and have a better life. They have no time to learn the language in order to integrate. Many of them are quite successful and send money to their family back in Mexico.
Many of them are coming illegally here, because they know one thing: in America there will be a better life for them than in Mexico.
Jan Phillip Hamm:
Today there are a lot of Afro-Americans living here in America. Do you have the feeling that they are a part of the community? Or are they still separated from the community?
Herman Snyder:
The Afro-Americans came long time ago from Africa. They brought them as slaves to the United States and they were slaves when Lincoln was president. He was trying to free them from slavery. They worked for nothing, but bread. They lived separately from their families. It was not easy for them. The Afro-Americans were always discriminated for many specific reasons like the colour of their skin. As I said, they came as slaves and slavery has existed for a long time and now after Martin Luther King and others they are integrated themselves into the society and many Afro Americans succeeded very well. They are lawyers, professors, journalists to just name a few. And many of them are living very, very well in the United States – today. It took a long time.
Jan Phillip Hamm:
But if we take a look on Wilkinsburg which is an area of Pittsburgh where mainly Afro-Americans are living under very poor conditions. They live in their own world; still separated. What do you think, how can we integrate them better into the society?
Herman Snyder:
Mostly it is up to the people themselves. But they didn’t have a chance for a long time, for hundreds and hundreds of years. They were left alone to live a life in America. They were strongly discriminated against, even today. Discrimination against them still exists, but not as strong. They did integrate themselves. They became good citizens. After 300 -400 years we have a president of the United States who is an Afro American. So they are making progress because of the changing conditions in the world internationally and otherwise they cannot go on. They have always been discriminated against. They are human beings as we are. Discrimination is definitely the wrong approach.
Jan Phillip Hamm:
Of course, I agree, the people have to be willing to adapt themselves to the society, but how can the government or the people around them make it easier for them to integrate themselves? Which steps or which actions need to be taken?
Herman Snyder:
The government in the last centuries has always been responsible for the welfare of the people, but when people lived under feudalism and aristocracy, it was different. Only the people on the top could live, because they were implementing laws for the benefit of themselves. The world is changing: social justice and human rights are getting better. Hundred years ago we had a billion people living in the world. It took millions of years. Now we are seven million people. It is a problem on the five continents we live, in Asia alone, to be more specific, you have two countries: You have China, a billion and three hundred million people and India – one billion and hundred million people. We almost have half of the population or even more in Asia. You see. The world is also changing economically, philosophically and idealistically for the better men of all men. To give you a specific answer, in central Latin America, what happened under the Bush administration, that nine countries became Socialistic. The people voted them in democratically and now look: Brazil, Paraguay, Argentina, Bolivia and Venezuela which are living better under Socialism because the government and the people are working for the betterment the of all men, not just a few the way it existed not so long ago. So the world is getting better and we hope that we will live in a peaceful world where wars will be eradicated and social justice, human rights and pragmatism will take over.
Jan Phillip Hamm:
What was the biggest problem you had to face with regard to integration and migration?
Herman Snyder:
When I started working with the American carpenters and we were sitting, having lunch, Erik Meyer worked with me and he spoke German. He was speaking to me in German and he said: „Herman, die Juden kommen wieder nach Amerika. I thought they were all dead. The Germans killed them all.” I was saying the same words: “I agree with you. It is true. I don’t know why they are coming back. They should not let them in.” And then I was talking to him a while, we were having lunch and I said to him: ”Erik, ich bin kein Deutscher. Ich bin Jude, ich bin jüdisch.” The man I was working for had given me a good job in Southside. I told him the story. He wanted to fire Erik and I said:”No, please don’t. I hope he will learn from it after I told him what he said was wrong.” And the contractor I was working for didn’t fire him. I can sit with you and I can keep on talking about discrimination, Anti- Semitism and exploitation which was noticeable in the past and still exists, but the way I feel living, past 90, and having lived in six, seven countries in my lifetime; I am very optimistic that the world we live in will offer a better life in the future for all of us. But first we have to eradicate wars. Wars are very destructive. Nobody benefits from them. I am a pacifist. What I have seen in my life, what I have learned. I hate wars, because I know how they affect the working people, because I am one of them.
Jan Phillip Hamm:
Do you think that the integration as a Holocaust survivor was different? Do you think it was easier or more difficult?
Herman Snyder:
In America?
Jan Phillip Hamm:
Both in Germany and America?
Herman Snyder:
Among us the lucky ones who survived the Holocaust and who came to the United States, many of them wanted to live the same way like in Europe or like they were used to in Europe religiously and economically. They worked hard. They accomplished a lot. I just read the statistics. 90 to 92 % of the Holocaust survivors who came to the United States after the Second World War graduated from college and higher . The problem is the people never learned from history. The Jews were always discriminated against and persecuted for the last 2000 years. They were in the haspora and the Jewish people were not treated right even then and I found out long time ago, if you don’t correct history, history repeats itself. The Jews paid the ultimate price in the 2000 years we have lived in the apsora; mostly wherever they lived. The 6 million Jews in my time did not learn why the Jews were hated and why they paid the ultimate price and this is a tragedy not only for the Jewish people, but for others we don’t know what they are doing and that is what hate is all about. I would rather work hard for three or five dollars an hour, and live in a peaceful world without discrimination against Jews just because of being Jewish. Like I said, the United States is a good place when you learn what you do well. If you learn how to continue work, to do the right things, to obey the rules and you are not lazy, you can never fail in the United States
Jan Phillip Hamm: What do you think, which impact did the need of integration have on you? Did it change your life or your perspectives?
Herman Snyder:
Like I said, I had one child who came with us to the United States from Germany. Two of my daughters were born here. My wife and I worked very hard. We had our own business. We worked together. I built a beautiful home for my family and we had a good life. Integration is not up to me. I can integrate myself, but there are millions of people here in America and you are always with others; if you work or you do business with them – whatever you do. The reason I came here at the first place is to come to a free country without discrimination, without too much exploitation and I finally found freedom in the United States. Back In Poland we lived in a capital society and I went to school and I learned about men their behaviour. It was in Poland. I don’t think there was another place in the world where anti-Semitism and discrimination existed. And I may say to you religion has a lot to do with discrimination and exploitation and the rest of them. That is why in the documentary “From Pittsburgh to Poland” I said specifically: “if there would be a God, God would have never allowed six million Jews, twenty-eight million Russians, nine million Germans and many others to die. But it is something for historians to do better than it was in the past and I am optimistic. I hope I will live another nine years in order to become 100 and I will know more about it. We all learn from life and why did I survive? I don’t know; I don’t know why. Sometimes I wonder. There were smarter and more educated people than me. I was running and running and running from one place to another, lived so long in the woods. There was no place to sleep, except under trees and 60 – 70 years later I am still here , sometimes I think about it, but I have never answered it. Why I don’t know. But I am glad that I came here, I built my family and I am still content here and I have a good life in here, even past ninety, life could not be better in the United States of America.
Jan Phillip Hamm:
Thank you so much, Mr. Snyder.